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[personal profile] billroper
If you are a Kerry supporter, this will probably give you indigestion. If you are John Kerry, it will probably give you apoplexy.

My gut reaction is that at least part of this is due to the fun and games taking place with the resignation of New Jersey Governor Jim McGreevey -- carefully timed to prevent voters in the state from having an opportunity to vote on his successor at any time before the original term of office expires. This is the second major manipulation of New Jersey elections in the last two years, the first being the replacement of senatorial candidate Frank Torricelli on the ballot after the normal deadline for doing so when it became apparent that he was way behind in the polls. This sort of thing is generally guaranteed to produce a certain level of disgust with the party involved (except maybe in Chicago) and could well be producing a backlash that is hurting Kerry.

My gut also says that a chunk of this is due to the CBS/Rather/National Guard memo story that continues to go around, largely due to CBS insisting that the memos are "authentic". (This was downgraded to "accurate" today in a statement by CBS News President Andrew Hayward.) The problem is that the memos look -- to the naked, informed eye -- like modern forgeries, so much so that you can superimpose them on a document trivially created and printed out using Microsoft Word and see no difference that can't be explained by a few generations of photocopying.

Essentially, CBS News is saying to the voters "Who are you going to believe: us or your own eyes?" And I suspect that swing voters are tempted to believe their own eyes, which causes them to view this as a particularly clumsy partisan attack on Bush, no matter what they might actually think about his National Guard service.

I could be wrong, of course.

Date: 2004-09-16 01:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tnatj.livejournal.com
Now I think that's a real tin-foil-hat theory, Bill.

My own tin-foil-hat theory is that Rather got sucker-punched by a Republican campaign operative. Which tells you something both about the Republican campaign and about Rather (the operative word in his case being sucker).

The truth is probably more complex. Regrettably, we'll likely never know the true story. However, if the memos were out-and-out forgeries, and from a Democratic source, then that source is a damn fool, and Rather more a fool for accepting and producing them.

Contrary to your theory, this has been all horribly counterproductive from the Democratic Party's point-of-view, because the memos themselves have no more information in them than other, validated sources that already have been released. It also wastes resources and time that could be spent supporting Kerry's virtues or emphasizing Bush's problems and failings, both personal and policy-wise.

Date: 2004-09-16 01:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrlogic.livejournal.com
You mean, an evil race sent here to overthrow humanity and take over the world? No! Say it isn't so!

Now that I think about it, though, it does match the evidence pretty well...

Date: 2004-09-16 02:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tnatj.livejournal.com
I did say it was a tin-foil-hat theory. But I think that my tin-foil-hat theory is more likely than yours.

I simply do not see any connection to a presidential campaign issue and a local situation in New Jersey — or for that matter, a local situation having to do with Republican senatorial candidates in Illinois. ;-)

Date: 2004-09-16 02:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] filkertom.livejournal.com
First, you can find whatever polls you want. The media will report the story it's paid to report (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/15/17531/5967).

As to the frickin' memos, sorry, Bill, but I have to off for a second. I adore the Repub Expert Machine. The Swift Boat Liars know all about serving with Kerry even though they didn't; now everybody in the right-wing blogosphere is suddenly an expert on 1970s-era IBM Selectric typefaces.

What a crock.

However, this whole stupid smear has, as was intended, focused attention away from the big BIG BIG story:

The White House never argued about the content of the documents.

Did they say it was a big fat lie, that Dubya never disobeyed a direct order, that he showed up from thus-and-such a date to this-and-such date, here are some people who knew him (there are at least $60,000 worth of cash rewards out there for anyone who can verify they saw Dubya serving during those disputed months; no takers so far this year), how dare they impugn etc. etc. etc.?

No. As per usual, they sit back, keeping their hands as clean as possible, while letting their paid press lapdogs have at it. (Just like they're having at Kitty Kelley [granted, not the best-reputed pundit of all time, but at least she's honest about which side she's on], unlike, say, Matt Lauer.)

Did the press do this with the Swift Boat Liars? They did not. They gave them a million or two dollars of free air time by running their spurious, all-now-discredited charges as "news reports", and having the Dems defend themselves.

Yeah, this whole thing is a noisy, ugly fiasco... because that's the way the Repubs wanted it. This is, in particular, a standard Bush family technique, honed over time and as disgusting today as it was when they used it against Dukakis in '88... or Reagan in '80.

Who are you going to believe, Bill: the Repubs who have been lying to you, me, and all of us for years and years, or your own eyes?

Date: 2004-09-16 05:02 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Those Republican Orbital Mind Control Lasers do impressive things, don't they? First they got the City of Boston to impose draconian measures during the Democratic Convention to undermine support for Kerry in Massachusetts. Now they're making Dan Rather stand steadfastly by memos that appear to be faked, so that he'll ruin Kerry's campaign by association.

Really, sometimes people do idiotic things just because they're idiots at the time.

URL: http://mcgath.blogspot.com

Date: 2004-09-16 11:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] minnehaha.livejournal.com
This sort of thing is generally guaranteed to produce a certain level of disgust with the party involved

Oh, I dunno. Didn't the Republicans cheer for Tom DeLay's gerrymandering idea?

K.

Date: 2004-09-17 08:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] minnehaha.livejournal.com
Tried this?

K. [Quote: "Following the 2000 census, all states were obligated to redraw the boundaries of their congressional districts in line with the new population figures. In 2001, that process produced a standoff in Texas, with the Republican state senate and the Democratic state house of representatives unable to reach an agreement. As a result, a panel of federal judges formulated a compromise plan, which more or less replicated the current partisan balance in the state’s congressional delegation: seventeen Democrats and thirteen Republicans. Then, in the 2002 elections, Republicans took control of the state house, and Tom DeLay, the Houston-area congressman who serves as House Majority Leader in Washington, decided to reopen the redistricting question. DeLay said that the current makeup of the congressional delegation did not reflect the state’s true political orientation, so he set out to insure that it did."]

Date: 2004-09-16 02:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] filkertom.livejournal.com
Oh, and here's a new Harris poll at The Wall Street Journal that says Bush and Kerry are tied (http://online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB109526872487418642,00.html?mod=todays%5Ffree%5Ffeature).

Date: 2004-09-16 04:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrlogic.livejournal.com
Thanks for that, Tom. Helps to remind us all not to put too much stock in polls. This one is based on only 1013 opinions; another I saw (that had Bush substantially ahead) was based on only 790-odd.

It ain't over till it's over. (And maybe not for another month after that....)

Date: 2004-09-16 05:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] huskiebear.livejournal.com
A lesson that needs to be hammered home to everyone these days: a poll is an accurate representation of the answers a given group gave to a given set of questions. That's it.

The sample number in that first link that Bill posted (n=734) means the results might possibly have some vague passing resemblance to the reality of millions of voters. What got me was the extended breakdown by category that followed the "bad news". That kind of overanalysis of a small data set is what my boss calls data masturbation and is *completely* useless. If there is only 1 left-leaning, asian union member in your 734 person sample, one missed keystroke can throw your percentages off by 100%! Think, people!

Date: 2004-09-16 06:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] huskiebear.livejournal.com
Well, if you're into data masturbation as a spectator sport, you can't go wrong at www.electoral-vote.com. What I find fascinating is looking at the state graphs (click on a state). The solid red or blue states(like TX) look like perfect parallel lines, while the "swing state" graphs (OH, FL)look like a couple of mating snakes. All, for good or ill, mostly meaningless at this point in the cycle, given the short attention span of the sheeple...

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