Meanwhile, Back Around the House...

[billroper]

Apparently, Katie and Julie are being too much for some of the people we know to handle. While we're working on improving their behavior, overall we tend to think it's pretty normal for two bright, active children, one of whom just turned three; the other of whom is only 18 19 months old (as of today).

daisy_knotwise is pretty much fit to spit nails. I sympathize entirely.

They're young. We're trying to teach them how to behave, but it's a work in progress.

If you'd rather we weren't around with the girls, that's fine. Let us know. We'll be somewhere else instead.

Comments

[scarfman]

When you have kids, that's when you find out who your friends really are.

[bardling.livejournal.com]

Thereby implying that anyone who can't cope with kids cannot be a friend?

I think it's not that simple.

I used to not cope with kids very well ad not like them. I was lucky enough to have friends who accepted that - and went on to have kids. I leart that I can like some children (boils down to just as much of an individual thing as with adults), that most children most times are ok, and I learnt a lot about how to cope better. Much of it was simply getting used to them, and losing the "ACK! IT's a KID! What do I do?" panic mode I started out with. I now have several children I consider to be something like my god-nieces and -nephews.

[wyld-dandelyon.livejournal.com]

The times I've seen your kids at cons, they've been very well-behaved for their ages.

And as to having times when they're not perfect, well, grownups have those times too.

Some people are extremely (militantly, even) kid-intolerant. You can't blame yourselves or the kids for that.

[capplor.livejournal.com]

Oh, bring them on over, our kids would be proud & pleased to play with them. Meanwhile we old folks could jam a bit.

[bardling.livejournal.com]

Mmm, "too much to handle" (unless you're rephrasing politely) is not something I'd automatically see as an equivalent to "badly behaved" or "you parents aren't doing your job". As you say, they're young, and young ones can at times be hard to handle. Some people are very noise sensitive, and particularly young children's occasional screeching can cut through extremely strongly at those high frequencies.
Other people find high energy difficult/exhausting.
Yet other people have an adrenalin reaction every time a child moves abruptly, which can be extremely tiring after awhile.

Also, for people with less skil at childwrangling, the bar for "too much to handle" tends to be much lower than for people used to children and/or with experience at child wrangling.

Mainly, I see "X is too much to handle" as an expression of personal preferences or (limits to the) ablities of the person who says it. Not a quality of X.

[billroper]

Well, I was being polite. :)

Yesterday, we got unsolicited parenting advice because our children are "strong-willed", based on the context of the conversation.

When the girls are being loud in a place where they shouldn't be being loud, we pick them up and remove them. We're working on that, but -- for instance -- getting them to sit still through a meal is a bit of a challenge. :)

Our little solipsists just need to understand that they aren't the center of the universe. That takes time. I know some adults who still haven't mastered that.

Present company not included. :) We like you.

[bardling.livejournal.com]

polite Absolutely fair enough then.
Unsolicited parenting advice is annoying - especially when coming from non-parent know-it-alls! (Not saying the originators were, I dunno whether they were either. But good parenting? Definitely easier said than done/upheld, with the best will in the world. Never mind the differing opinions of what constitutes "good parenting", given people's differing values. ;)

As for the challenge - yes, I grok that. And yes, it does take time... by the sounds you seem to be doing ok there, though. :)

Present company not included. :) We like you.
Phew! :)

[zencuppa.livejournal.com]

"getting them to sit still through a meal is a bit of a challenge. :)"

I am happy if my kids manage to *stay* in their chairs *laugh" (See Andrea repeat to herself, "Restaurant Booths are my friend, Restaurant Booths . . ")

[billroper]

We've discovered that too, although the restaurant booths need to be wide enough in our case. :)

[gingicat]

Your kids are high energy and a lot of fun to be around when one is expecting it. Some people expect little kids to have a sense of appropriate behavior to the environment, and they just don't.

Joshua and Eva were pretty amazing at our friends' place for Thanksgiving, but when they were interfering with everyone else watching Princess Bride, I took them home. (We'd taken two cars in order to help transport another couple, so husband and I traded cars so he could transport them back to the subway in the car with only one child seat and I could take both kids home in the car with two child seats. And that way husband and our friends got to see the rest of the movie. *g*)

[billroper]

That's pretty much what we do too. When we have to, we take them out.

[madfilkentist]

I personally would find your kids "too much to handle" for any great length of time. If anyone (I don't mean you) thinks the worse of me for that, let them think that. I'd rather remove myself from the situation than make you deal with me as a nervous wreck.

[billroper]

Well, sure. And we try to remove them from your situation before they make you a nervous wreck. :)

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry someone made you feel like your kids were unwelcome, or like they thought you were bad parents.

I certainly agree that there are limits to what the best child wrangler can achieve with kids who are 3 and 1 1/2 years old, and limits to what the best behaved child can achieve at those ages. I think your kids are delightful and should carry a sweetness warning for diabetics, and I think they are generally as well behaved as one can expect with kids that age.

I'm not sure what the circumstances were, but in a general way, I also sympathize with people who have paid, or gone to some effort, to have a particular experience--see a play, hear a concert, have a romantic meal at a restaurant, or a quiet wildlife watching expedition in the woods--only to find one or more irrepressable kids trampling across that experience.

The kids honestly don't understand (or understand, but can't remember for more than a couple of minutes) about being thoughtful of others who don't want to hear the piping of cheerful (or unhappy) voices or the pounding of little feet. I remember being a kid myself and finding it impossible to be quiet enough for long enough for Dad to nap. I didn't *mean* to wake him up; I just forgot he was trying to sleep when I got excited.

And, in my opinion, Dad and Mom signed up for that when they decided to have kids. Random strangers, however, may not have signed up for that, and might reasonably expect not to have to live with it.

Obviously there's a happy medium to be struck--children liven up public spaces, and how are they going to learn to behave without opportunities to practice? And when people go into public spaces they've got to understand they're entering a place with others with goals they don't necesarily share, and a certain amount of putting-up-with-stuff is just to be expected. You have to wait in traffic sometimes, you have to put up with people using their cell phones in the bus, you have to deal with kids shrieking and running down the sidewalk.

I thought my parents handled it well--when we were young if they wanted to go someplace where people are expected to be quiet, they got a sitter and left us at home. However they took us shopping or to the library--and if one of us couldn't behave, they promptly removed us to an area where our cries didn't disturb others. If that meant the shopping didn't get done, we had rice or toast for dinner, and tried again some other day. That was inconvenient for Mom and Dad sometimes, but it meant a minimum of us inconveniencing others.

But I like your kids, and I expect most people do.

[catalana.livejournal.com]

when people go into public spaces they've got to understand they're entering a place with others with goals they don't necesarily share, and a certain amount of putting-up-with-stuff is just to be expected.

Yep. And if you're trying to have a romantic dinner for two at a family-themed restaurant, you should realize that you may be thwarted. *grin*

[sourceoftrouble.livejournal.com]

I can remember going out to eat (a real treat!) when my kids were little and listening to someone else's making a fuss at the restaurant - and thinking, "I could have stayed home and listened to this"!

There's a large sized difference between fussing and happy noises. Most happy noise can be tolerated, especially if it is for a finite time. Since most get-togethers are, I don't quite see why folks feel the need to complain.

Yes, you (in the plural) probably raise your kids differently than I did mine. That doesn't make either of them right or wrong, only different.

Some ideas

[zencuppa.livejournal.com]

Sounds like the individuals you were dealing with, don't understand or have the experience to know:

"We're trying to teach them how to behave, *and* it's a work in progress."

Depending on who you're dealing with, they may not recognize what *is* reasonable behavior for young children. And I say that as an adult who frankly, may have reacted the way your friends have, before I had kids.

As the parent of two, _very energetic_ and curious boys, I've learned to not have my children around nonfamily, when those kids are tired, or maxed out on their ability to behave well (and now that I think about it, that goes for the adults around the kids too *wry grin.*)

Now, that may not be the issue, and I wanted to mention it because it took me a while to figure that out.

Another way to look at it, is to encourage those friends to let you know what works for them, and (if you desire) hire a babysitter when seeing them. Or ask them if they have any experience with young children and offer them ideas and examples of how to interact with your kids instead of reacting to them.

Sending my sympathy and understanding *rueful look.*

Andrea

[paltergo.livejournal.com]

As a parent of three active boys I understand the challenge of getting kids to behave in the way you or others expect of them. Having spent a little time with your girls I can happily say that while yes they are energetic I found them delightful to be around and no where near as problematic as some others I've been around. I look forward to seeing you, Gretchen, and the girls soon.

Patricia

[cainle-bean.livejournal.com]

As a stepparent of 2 special needs kids, I am used to people not being able to deal with my kids. (We finally got them grown and out of the house =p)

But having recently been around 3 VERY active, normal boys... I know many times, they were asked not to come back places. Because they were being boys. Active, inquisitive, and a total joy to be around, but they wore on those who wanted a sedate life.

SO many people do not want to realize that kids are not born acting quiet and sedate and many of them never will be. So many kids today are drugged into sedate behavoir. I had much rather see active young ones than the glassy eyed drugged kids I see all around.

[andpuff.livejournal.com]

I've known adults who behave worse than your kids. Their parents, I'd like to have a word with. *g*

[poltr1]

I know the feeling and can empathize. I often go out to eat with Maria, and some days, she's still a handful. I've had to take her out of the restaurant once or twice.

I say bring 'em over. We'll have a playdate.

[ann-totusek.livejournal.com]

I'm thinking that anyone who kvetches about your kids can just come over and spend a day with my mother. Then have it driven home to them that it's no more your kids "fault" for being the age that they are than it is my mother's for having dementia and engaging in some of the same behaviors. And that someday they themselves may be in my mother's shoes, with people staring at them in a restaurant as they pick up their plates and sauce dishes and lick them clean while others stare and think "Why in the world do they take that person out?" when the answer is, "Because it makes her happy." You have the advantage that you can look forward to things improving. Us with Mom, not so much, so we get stuff in while we still can. Just as your kids won't be little forever, my mother won't be with us forever, and even though there are days that really suck, there are still times with love and laughter.

[judifilksign.livejournal.com]

I think parents everywhere can sympathize with you. I know I've gotten a *lot* of unsolicited advice about how to handle Sparkle, from folks who know *nothing* about autism.

We've had trouble getting folks to accept doing things when we have kids in tow, even before Sparkle.

I find your kids to be pretty normal and sweet, even under some of the stresses of a con. When they stop being so, I see you or Gretchen pull an "exit, stage left." You've always been considerate of others, often more so than other parents with whiny kids behaving more extremely on the scene. I'm sorry you've gotten grief, and feel sympathy because I've been there, myself.

[mia-mcdavid.livejournal.com]

Been in that place. Some folks just are not child friendly...or sympathetic...or sensible...hell with 'em.

*Sadness*

[qnvhrtz.livejournal.com]

I am sorry to hear that you are having this experience. Have been there. Have shared this heartache. Hugs to you all.

Re: *Sadness*

[billroper]

Thanks! And I'll see you at Confusion!

[weirdsister.livejournal.com]

Been there, and I sympathize with your (and Gretchen's) feelings. My two were lively and expressive at that age, and I also learned that some people are extremely insensitive about small children.

Your kids are very lucky to have you two for their parents, IMHO.

[billroper]

Thanks! I appreciate it.

[quadrivium.livejournal.com]

*hugs* I've been there. You both have my sympathy.

I am just now taking Simon to conventions (not filk ones yet) because I find that when I receive unsolicited parenting advice I have a completely inappropriate desire to kill the person who said something . . . then feed them to my young.

*smiles wryly.*

But, I'm learning to behave myself.