Picking Up a Thread

[billroper]

There's a lively discussion of the absence of dementia songs and performers on this year's Pegasus ballot going on over at mrgoodwraith's LJ. Part of the discussion has turned to "what's a filker?" which is a bit different from the usual question of "what's filk?". And I just thought I'd pull out my contribution and stick it here:

The biggest thing that I see that functionally defines the difference between a filker and a not-filker -- to me, at least -- is that someone who is a filker comes to play with us. Someone who is not a filker comes to play at us.

Look, I'm honest enough to admit that I have an ego and I certainly want to play my songs for the people in the circle. And there are people there whose opinion matters to me more than other people's. And there are people in the circle who I prefer to listen to more than I prefer to listen to some others.

But I go to the circle because I have more fun in the give and take and interplay than I do either giving or listening to a concert. (Please don't take this as "Bill doesn't want to do concerts". Bill is delighted to do a concert any time that he has a voice. See comment above on "hav(ing) an ego". :) A concert is a different thing from a circle and the very best filk circles are absolutely wonderful to behold. Or behear. Or something like that.)

And if I'm not having fun on a particular night, I can pick up and go do something else. I'm not trying to make my living from this, the world is not going to end if I don't get a particular song in right now (I might be frustrated, but I'm a big boy, I'll manage).

Musical tastes vary too. Some folks are going to like my stuff, others won't. And vice versa. The fact that I don't personally like something doesn't necessarily mean that it's bad, only that it doesn't suit my taste. Heck, there are folks who swear by Vegemite. :)

I know there's a point here somewhere, but I seem to have lost it.

If you find it, let me know.

Comments

[oreouk.livejournal.com]

No, I get it. It's why for example Heather Alexander is not a Filker - she does a fabulous job of mixing in when she's at a con but she's only at a con because she's being paid to be and so she's on stage all weekend. It's easy to see that as being part of the filk community but really she's not, because when the con ends then that's it, she's gone.

She's a fuzzy area because she performed on so many early filk tapes etc and I may be dead wrong in that I don't know the history so she may once have been a filker but isn't one now but I'm using her as an example and watching her in action and then thinking about it afterwards evolved my personal definition of a filker.

A filker comes to filk (cons/housefilks/CDs/whatever) on their own dime as well as being happy to come on the filk community's dime. They are there because they want the community as well as the performance.

[controuble.livejournal.com]

there's a point here somewhere, but I seem to have lost it.
Comb your hair right this morning?

[billroper]

Eventually. Once I found a comb. :)

[quadrivium.livejournal.com]

Nope. You didn't lose your point. You made it in the second paragraph:

The biggest thing that I see that functionally defines the difference between a filker and a not-filker -- to me, at least -- is that someone who is a filker comes to play with us. Someone who is not a filker comes to play at us.

It's why I enjoy the filking community. I like to jam with people in the circle (or not if I can't think of anything that would enhance what is currently going on. Then I just listen.)

I do not see why there cannot be subsets of music of fandom just like there subsets of everything else in fandom. So, some people don't want to identify as filkers? So let them. They may change their minds or not. Diversity is good.

I think your post brought out some really good points, Bill. I read the live journal discussion going on mrgoodwraith's journal and I haven't participated in it yet, because some folks are really getting their feelings hurt about the discussion because everyone does not agree.

I will simply repeat "Diversity is good." Some movements in art, music, writing and fandom will change or die off. Some may resurge. Other completely new ones will emerge.

Thanks for the post!

[fleetfootmike.livejournal.com]

Filk is a continuum between music and fandom.
We all have our own point on it.

Mine's probably closer to the music point than many. But not all.

[phillip2637.livejournal.com]

Concerts: I've done two short ones. [Ya, I know....] But it makes me think that, part of the filker definition may also be related to the idea that the person on stage is there more because of a transient situation than any fixed role. This hit me a year-and-a-half ago as I looked down from the FKO stage and saw U.T. in the third row. :-)

[kevinnickerson.livejournal.com]

Missed a category: I don't come to play with or at you, and am therefore especially not a filker.

[grey-lady.livejournal.com]

Interesting - I've discovered today that I'm not a filker. :)

[billroper]

Not my intent necessarily, although I think that there may be a difference between a "filker" and a member of the "filk community".

Or not.

I'll accept whichever version of it makes the community happy. :)

[madfilkentist]

Let me try tying this in with my idea that filk is a movement, not a genre. What I wrote was that "it's the product of a community of people with shared standards and goals. These have changed over the years, as any movement does."

Those standards and goals include participation by all and acceptance of whatever level of ability people have. Your defining a filker as someone who comes to play with us is close to the mark, but forgets that there are other forms of participation. There are people who just listen, but they still sit in the circle, not in the audience. (I'm not sure if this is as true in midwest "performers' circles.") People may make suggestions, write and discuss songs (either in person or on line), host housefilks, work on committees, or just help set up chairs. Complete beginners may just want to sit and watch at first, but generally they'll either become participants or stop coming.

This doesn't diminish the validity of wizard rock and all the rest. But it's something different. We wouldn't particularly expect Harry and the Potters to sit in on a filk circle or contribute songs to a filk book. That's fine, but it's something other than filk.

[the-gwenzilliad.livejournal.com]

IAWTP

*HUGS*

[daisy-knotwise.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I'm not familiar with that expression.
Translate, please?

GHR

[the-gwenzilliad.livejournal.com]

I agree with this post. :-)

[quadrivium.livejournal.com]

I didn't know either, but I googled it. :-) Glad to know I made the right guess of acronym. *beams* IAWTP too.

[peteralway.livejournal.com]

In my college days, some kids in the dormitory seemed so cool because when they put a record on, they would talk about how they had heard the musician or band playing live.

When bought my first few filk CD's, I realized that not only had I heard these musicians play live, but that these musicians had heard me play live. That is what makes filk different.

As for those in the filk community who don't perform, I hope that they understand that they are welcome to take a shot at it any time they want to. That's what the "open" in open filk means.

[billroper]

Oh, yeah. If that last wasn't true, I'd never have sung a thing.

[scarfman]

I know there's a point here somewhere, but I seem to have lost it.

If you find it, let me know.

I think you were trying to define a filker. I think you did.

[mbumby.livejournal.com]

Um... and where does that leave those of us who lack talent, or who are shy, who come for to listen. I skipped OVFF for many years because someone (I'll call him "S") told me that if I weren't a filker (which I took to mean "performer") I had no place there. I was enough taken aback that I asked someone else (I'll call him "F") and he agreed. Although later on, we whipped out definitions and compared, and at least F would have considered me as a listener to be a "filker", so the advice he gave was not the advice he intended to give.

[billroper]

Darned fine question. There appears to be some difference of opinion as to whether the word "filker" applies only to performers or to some larger set of people which would include all of the members of the "filk community".

I'd be happy with whatever consensus definition(s) that we might manage to reach, although -- given that we have yet to successfully define filk to everyone's satisfaction! -- this might take a while. :)

[mbumby.livejournal.com]

I'll confess I like it better to be considered a "filker" even if I don't perform, so I would propose a starting point of "a person who gets pleasure out of a filk room".

Yes, I know it's not complete, and I chose room because I didn't want to argue about what constitutes a "circle".

And yes, I realize that if enough words are added, like "without whom, said room would be diminished" that would exclude me, at least in some eyes. And I'm hoping things don't go in that direction, as good as it may sound, because that could lead to a lot of acrimony toward or from ... many.