billroper: (Default)
[personal profile] billroper
I retook one of those political quizzes that has passed through various mailing lists that I'm on at one point or another. It's the left/right, authoritarian/libertarian version and -- much like last time -- I tested out right near the middle on left/right and a few points toward the libertarian side of the scale. (This time I came out just to the left of center on left/right. But my mileage varies.)

Now, some among you may say, "Nonsense! You're way to the right of center." And -- if so -- I suggest that your perspective is somewhat similar to that famous map from the cover of the New Yorker where everything close to you is very, very large and the rest of the nation is compressed beyond recognition. I know a lot of people who are to the right of me politically. Most of them aren't in fandom (although some are). It doesn't mean that they don't exist.

I don't believe that Bush is the Platonic ideal of a U.S. President. I'm not convinced that Kerry would be either, although I think he'd be less destructive than Gore would have been. I wish we could have a President who was as ideal as Josiah Bartlet, although to quote Tom Smith, "All his buddies were writing the script."

I believe that the vast majority of voters in this country are woefully undereducated on the issues. I fear that most of them may not be capable of comprehending anything more complex than a sound bite. I worry that they are making their decisions based on statements such as -- and I am not making this up! -- the customers at Gretchen's bank who were against Bush because they'd heard that if he was re-elected, he would reintroduce slavery. And I find it equally worrisome that there are people voting against Kerry for some equally vile bit of slander.

I think that I'm a moderate. And I have very little patience left for the far-right or the far-left.

Date: 2004-07-21 05:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jrittenhouse.livejournal.com
See my latest rant on all of this:
http://www.marmotgraphics.com/jim/journal/2004/07/journal_071604.html

Date: 2004-07-21 07:29 pm (UTC)
bedlamhouse: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bedlamhouse
The problem is exacerbated by the desire of the public news media to report "interesting" things rather than "useful" things. To be fair, they are between something of a rock and a hard place, because "useful" information that nobody watches is really "useless" information.

Anyone who is a moderate and can figure out how to make the moderate position exciting, interesting, and emotionally fulfilling should be forever placed on the list of contributors to democracy.

Date: 2004-07-21 07:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tigertoy.livejournal.com
I would change 'moderate' in your last sentence to 'intelligent'. As in,
Anyone who is intelligent and can figure out how to make the intelligent position exciting, interesting, and emotionally fulfulling to the average couch potato should be forever placed on the list of contributors to democracy.

As soon as you try to actually explain the complex nature of the real world and back up a position with actual facts, the couch potato goes MEGO and tunes you out. So what do we do?

Date: 2004-07-22 04:34 pm (UTC)
bedlamhouse: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bedlamhouse
While it would be nice to indulge ourselves and say "intelligent", the fact of the matter is that many of those on the far right and far left are very intelligent and can defend their positions intelligently. Intelligent does not necessarily equal an opinion within some narrow range.

The problem is not whether the positions are intelligent, it is that they are able to be stirred up emotionally in part because they are extreme - meaning a lot of people can get heated up against them, and the ones that are in favor of them are emotionally attached to them.

It comes to my mind that an emotional appeal can work with fanatical followers who agree emotionally, but it seems to flourish with emotional opposition (which then creates the defensive emotion in the followers even if they started out intellectual etc. etc. etc.)

After all, the stereotype of the hard-core leftist is the academic intellectual with lots of intelligence and ideas but no practical experience, while one stereotype of the hard-core right-winger is the highly successful businessman who wants to keep his money away from the filthy common people.

Date: 2004-07-22 11:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tigertoy.livejournal.com
I'd say that the trouble arrives when one group thinks a system is hopelessly broken, while another group thinks it is working reasonably well and only needs tinkering.

Date: 2004-07-22 11:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tigertoy.livejournal.com
My point wasn't to claim that intelligent was a particular part of the political spectrum; it was that a stupid electorate that demands simpleminded emotional arguments to sway how they vote and doesn't recognize even the most obvious of the lies they are fed is bad for the country and bad for democracy.

Date: 2004-07-21 07:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tigertoy.livejournal.com
I haven't talked politics with you as much as I might, but I think you're to the right within the group of people who (a) have brains and (b) aren't rich and totally selfish, but nowhere near as far right as the Rush Limbaugh/Fox News camp. I have strong political opinions on particular issues, and they're scattered over the political map. A preponderance of my opinions are on on the liberal side, but I refuse to label myself as a liberal, and people who do identify as liberals would gag on my views, e.g., on gun control and capital punishment. I'm not sure if I should call myself a moderate, but I think it fits better than any of the other standard labels. But if you can agree with my calling myself moderate, I can agree with you doing the same.

I completely agree about the danger we face from a totally clueless electorate.

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