Lack of Progress

[billroper]

The thing that saddens me most about the election tomorrow is that I see people -- who I like -- posting things that are patently untrue, things that are echoes of things that were said about a person that I suspect that they revere, the late President Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Certainly there were many people who felt that he would do anything to get us into World War II, up to and including lying about foreknowledge of the Pearl Harbor attack.

And despite anything bad that the current President may have done, nothing that he has done quite compares to herding the entire population of American citizens of Japanese descent in the Western United States into detainment camps. Yeah, I know we'd all agree now that what he did then was a pretty bad thing, but some things are easier to figure out from a distance than they are at the time that you're doing them.

And who could argue with the idea that the right thing to do was to go to war to remove a crazed dictator who was murdering tens of thousands of his own citizens? The biggest question, I suspect, in either case ought to be, "What took you so long to save us?", a question that we might well be correctly putting to the United Nations on the subject of Darfur.

Governments are made up of imperfect men and they will make mistakes.

So will the rest of us.

And maybe some time in the next 75 years, we'll figure out how to do it better. God knows, we haven't figured it out yet.

Comments

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

Why do you hate freedom?

B

[billroper]

I was unaware that I did. If you actually think that I do, I suppose I should go somewhere else.

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

Um, B.'s reply was to tanac, not you.

K.

[kestrels-nest.livejournal.com]

I have to say, the jest was not apparent to me, either.

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

It's a regular Republican talking point, even today, that those who are against Republican politics are against America, pro the terrorists, and so on. The most bizarre -- at least to me -- flavor of that was that, somehow, those who opposed Republican politics "hated freedom." (No, I'm not going to look up references; it seems too surreal to have to footnote a joke.) So it has become a joke in some circles, whenever someone says something anti-Republican, so respond with "why do you hate America?" or "why do you hate freedom?"

I guess it's not funny if you agree with those who make those accusations. Or you don't read about the accusations.

B

[billroper]

By the way, have I ever accused you of anything? Did I do something to deserve this response? Or is your faith in your positions so weak that it can't stand the least suggestion that the partisanship in this country is completely out of control?

I've honestly responded to your posts in the past. I've made suggestions about places where I thought that you might be able to improve your arguments, even if I didn't necessarily agree with your position, because I think it's important that people be able to discuss issues in a rational fashion.

And I get this crap.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry that the irony of his remark was not apparent, but he replied to tanac comment about detention camps, not to anything you said.

K.

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

My comment was not directed towards you, it was directed towards tanac, who I assumed would get the joke.

I agree that we should be able to discuss issues in a rational fashion, but also with humor and warmth.

I apologize if I offended you but...please...relax.

B

[billroper]

I apologize for having misunderstood your statement and for going off on you.

If it helps you to understand my point of view, I don't think that is a question that either side should be asking of the other (at least in this country) and I frequently feel like people are asking me that question in discussions such as these. So I incorrectly believed that the question was directed to me in this case.

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

I looked back at my LJ comments over the past two years, and found that I made a "why do you hate freedom" comment about a dozen different times.

And yes, I hate hate hate the Republican tactic of painting Democrats as against America, pro the terrorists, against freedom, and so on. I hate it when Bush and Cheney do it, and I hate it when the right-wing bloggers do it. It's an absolutely despicable piece of rhetoric.

B

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

And using it in a joking context both makes it less powerful and subverts the way it twists the thinking of those for whom the comment, taken straight, no chaser, resonates.

K.