Filk Is...

[billroper]

I tripped over the definition of filk music on Wikipedia, largely because of the link across from my entry. (Googling your own name and all that.) The main body of the article includes a quote from my good friend, bedlamhouse, saying "Filk is anything that happens at a filk sing."

With all due respect to my distinguished colleague from the great State of Georgia (Whoops! This is what happens when you read transcripts of Senatorial hearings.), I can't concur. The problem is that this definition leads us down a black hole and into a singularity of circular definition. I believe that there are many things that we might do at a filksing that aren't filk; that there are songs written by filkers that are not filksongs; that there are songs written by non-filkers that are filksongs. This doesn't mean that any of these things are bad or wrong, it simply means that a thing is what it is and we shouldn't confuse it with something else.

I think that if we're going to define "filk", we need something along these lines that is less inclusive than some of the definitions that I've seen going around:

"Filk is the folk music of science-fiction fandom including both original material and parodies. Generally, filk will have science fiction or fantasy themes, but may also deal with areas of broad fannish interest such as space flight, computers, and fandom itself."

Now I'm a filker, but not every song that I write is filk. Weird Al is not a filker, but songs like Yoda are pretty clearly filk. And if decadent_dave sings songs by Stan Rogers at a filksing, that doesn't mean that this isn't a filksing, nor does it mean that Stan's music was a filksong.

A secondary definition is that filk refers to the folk music of a particular fandom. Thus, Starsky and Hutch fans might write Starsky and Hutch filk, but that wouldn't normally be what we were referring to as "filk" with no qualifier.

So am I completely off the reservation or am I making sense?

Comments

[phillip2637.livejournal.com]

I wonder if there needs to be something about a filk "sensibility" or...I have no idea what the right word is.

Example: Led Zeppelin did at least one song that mentions LotR stuff, but -- even played on an acoustic -- I'm not sure it would come across as filk because the LotR bits aren't what the song is about.

Just as I can do a song entirely about cats and have it accepted as filk (apparently!), one of the things that makes me very interested in what you're saying is something I'm currently working on, which has a lot of fantasy references, but doesn't feel like filk to me.

Now, a) I have no clue what it is that gives me that feeling; and b) it probably wouldn't stop me from playing it a a house filk anyway, but.... :-}

[billroper]

Re: Led Zeppelin. Right, nor is the Donovan song, Sunshine Superman, filk because it mentions Superman and Green Lantern.

As far as the song that you're writing, there's no reason not to play it if it's a good song. But it would be good to know why you don't think that it's filk.

[phillip2637.livejournal.com]

"But it would be good to know why you don't think that it's filk."

In the light of a new day, reading some other comments in the thread, I came to filkerdave's mention of 'intent' and that seems to be a fair jumping-off point for an explanation.

I wrote a song in October and, from the first moment I got the idea, I was imagining it being done in a filk circle. A few days ago, my wife pointed out to me that the song actually contained no explicitly filkish subject matter. I ran through the verses and...wow, she was right!

OTOH, the current song that I'm not so sure about may come closer to your Sunshine Superman example, or White Rabbit perhaps. The fantasy elements and characters are in there for the intended purpose of symbolism. At its core, the song is about very mundane concerns, with an attempt to illustrate them using fantasy. An allegory of sorts...maybe. [shrug]

(Amazing how quickly deconstructing my own songwriting attempts starts to sound pretentious to me. I'll stop now.)

[autographedcat.livejournal.com]

It does make sense to a degree. Of course, the biggest problem I have with the notion of "what is filk" is that its ultimately an uninteresting question, aside from the obvious joy in word-geeking over semantics. :)

The definintion I put on my webpage, at the top of my online songbook:

Filk is music about SF and Fantasy, about the people who create it, and the people who enjoy it. It is the folk music of science fiction fandom, and includes everything from song parodies on SF themes to original musical works. It has a variety of styles, from folk to rock to show tunes. But it is, at its root, the music of a particular culture, that being SF fandom, and essentially music about the things that people of that culture embrace is filk.

Which is think covers most of it...like all general definitions, it doesn't address where the real boundries are between filk and not-filk, and when it comes down to deciding what to sing at a filksing, I don't ever pay attention to that anyway. :)

[billroper]

The boundaries between filk and not-filk are always likely to be fuzzy, but many definitions are a bit fuzzy. I'd just like the definition not to be completely elastic. :)

[pbristow.livejournal.com]

Heh. I tried to tackle similar issues a while back, though not quite pushing in the same direction.

I think the first question you need to get to grips with is "what are we defining filk *for*?" - i.e. what's the function of the definition. Are we trying to do what a dictionary does - i.e. provide a reasonable summary of the various ways in which the word filk is actually used "In the wild"? Or are we trying to "steer" the popular understanding of the word to conform with our own intended meaning? I think Wikipedia needs to focus on the former goal, rather than the latter. And as such, I'm a lot happier with it's current definition than with some of the others that turn up as apparently definitive! The worst thing about it is the first third word - "Filk is folk music..." - which *must* immediately convey the false impression to many casual readers that filk is "music performed in the style commonly known in the Western World as 'folk'".

For a dictionary definition, I came to accept that the only way we can resolve the conflict between "filk as defined by (traditional) filkers", and "filk as defined by a lots of people in other fandoms who've recently picked up the word and starting using it", is to have two (or more) definitions in the dictionary, just as we have for so many other words.

However, when it comes to how *we* define filk in our own writings (e.g. our own LiveJournals or CD sleevenotes), for the sake of *informing* the newcomer as to what we mean by filk, we're into more complex territory. It's here, if anywhere, that gag definitions like "filk is what filkers do; and filkers are people who filk" can be aired, but to avoid alienating the very people we're reaching out to we need to make the tongue-in-cheekness clear, and provide a more "useful" definition as well. And it's here that it's important to exercise a bit of humility and awareness of teh diversity of human experience, and say "this is what *I* mean by filk. You will other people who mean slightly different things by it. They're not wrong - they're just Hideous Alien Freakazoids Determined To Undermine The Infrastructure of Holy Filkdom(TM). Bless 'em. =:o} "

[billroper]

I agree that there's not much doubt that the dictionary definition for "filk" needs several entries. And I will gladly accept the friendly amendment that would remove "folk" from my trial definition. :)

[pbristow.livejournal.com]

Well actually, you've said "the folk music of..." and then identified the folk who make it, which is fine - although it would benefit from then clarifying that you're using the phrase "folk music" in its original sense, rather than as defining a particular style.

The current version of the Wikipedia entry omits the vital word "the"..."of", and presents us with a bold statement: "Filk is folk music" - which it then starts to modify with information about subject matter. But "folk music", used as a definite compound noun, has a different meaning than "the folk music of...": To most Western minds the former defines a particular style or narrow range of styles in which the wielding of a guitar is semi-obligatory. The latter formulation acknowledges immediately that "folk music" is not a single homogenous standard, but rather something that's defined by the community that creates it.

If only I could remember my Wikipedia ID and password, I'd be in there making edits right now...

[sdorn.livejournal.com]

The problem is that this definition leads us down a black hole and into a singularity of circular definition.

Not really—it's more of an anthropological description rather than a clear definition. I don't think you can have a clear definition of filk that isn't subject to the Godel Theorem, zoning regulations, or the curse of disco. That doesn't mean that we don't operate with a notion of what marks out filk in our heads, but it's a bit like Potter Stewart's description of pornography.

[billroper]

Well, yes, I do know what filk is when I see it...

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

Filk is a matter of symbolism and intent.

[drzarron.livejournal.com]

But see, a fan written song about "Starsky and Hutch" would could as filk in my book.

I know of a couple of well loved filks which are based on books without SF or F elements to them.

I heard an amazing song not long about the Patrick O'Brien "Aubry" books which would fit flawlessly into a filk.

To me, "FILK" is "A subset of Folk Music with subject matters of interest to Science Fiction and Fantasy Fans".

[poltr1]

Sutton's definition of filk is a bit recursive. I like yours better.

There's also found filk, which could be labeled filk if the performers were in the science fiction fandom community. Examples: The entire Alan Parsons Project's "Tales of Mystery and Imagination" (the songs were named after, and inspired by, Poe's works), Komputer's "Valentina", and Vangelis' "Albedo 0.39". All of which I should include in my repertoire.

[tigertoy.livejournal.com]

I'm going to make a drive-by comment here as I head for bed, with option to come back and say more.

I think we do need a distinction between the core filk of which no one would say "but it's not really a filk song" and the general definition of what's accepted at a filksing. But even the permissive operational definition isn't really as broad as "anything that happens at a filk". If someone came along and started performing very bad straight covers of the top disco songs of the late 70's at filks, it would not come to be accepted as part of filk, because even as tolerant as filkers are, they wouldn't put up with it. We may be slow to lob rotten fruit, but this hypothetical person would be snubbed publicly and talked to privately.

The permissive defition of filk is "anything that is well received at a filk is filk". Things that are not core filk are well received in direct relation to their quality and also in direct relation to how unusual they are. Frex, dropping one traditional Irish tune (impressively played) into a slow filk circle goes over well, but hijacking the filk and turning it into a sessiun would annoy some people.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

I'm still of the mind that filk is "music of the imagination". It's really based on Zappa's not doing many love songs, because everybody does love songs. It takes a twist of the brain to expand upon the human experience, to get past the simplest (not to denigrate them) motivations of love and hate. What makes "Hope Eyrie" so amazing is that it taps into several different primal emotions than we're used to: pride, wonder, awe, and the thrill of challenging of the unknown... the sensation of surpassing ourselves in a way never before dreamt of.

Filk celebrates our ability to be more than ourselves.

Sometimes with a lot of puns.

[stevieannie.livejournal.com]

I'm really glad to see this discussion, as I'm a subscriber to the belief that it's not just anything that we happen to sing.

When we do Phoenix, it is most *definitely* still filk, even though it doesn't have any kind of folk element to it. The songs are about media based events, or have an SF element to them (we occasionally do a straight cover of something "found-filkish" - but that's more to do with having fun as a band than any concept of filk). I also consider things such as Chris Malme's "Mind Such as Mine" (Silence of the Lambs-based) to be soundly filk, although it isn't anything to do with SF or fantasy.

Much of what Tim and I wrote in our most prolific phase was not necessarily SF or fantasy based - but it still went down well in circles. I wonder if this had more to do with our understanding of the community and acceptance therein?

Hmmm...

[madfilkentist]

As I've said before, filk needs to be defined as a movement rather than a genre. Saying it's a subclass of "folk music" is consistent with this, but it needs to be spelled out, so that, as pbristow noted, we don't confuse the issue with the popular perception of a folk music performance style. But "folk music" is the correct broader category. Saying "the folk music of..." helps to avoid confusion with the style, as

Definitions are important, so that we know what we're talking about, and so other people know what we're talking about. Any concept that pertains to something as complex as human behavior has gray edges; that's no reason to give up on being as clear as possible.

Sutton's definition...

[ladyat.livejournal.com]

...is what we say when we're trying to make "newbies" feel comfortable at their first filksing.

"But I only know showtunes/blues/Beatle songs," says the Nervous Newbie.

"No worries," say we. "Whatever we sing at a filksing is (implied: for that time and place) filk."

The newbie calms down and usually has a good time.

A lot of the stuff is not technically "filk." Doesn't have a fannish/sf/fantasy element. Some of it is "found filk" -- songs written by folks who haven't got Clue #1 what filk is, but ultimately fits the model. Just because you mention a constellation in your love song doesn't make it filk, but those of us who appreciate a good star pic will see how it fits when it pops up in the circle.

[bedlamhouse]

ladyat is correct regarding our usage of the phrase. We started using it in the South when Filkers were difficult to find, as many were afraid to perform or to speak up. We constructed this definition to be a sort-of "Southern Style" filk, to encourage others to participate even if they were telling a story or a joke or reading a poem.

I searched to see if that quote appeared in anything I've ever written about filk, and I can't find it. The first reference is a Southern filker (Bill Francis) quoting me as having said it, supporting our feeling above. I have never stated such an opinion in writing, nor would that precedent necessarily guide any future opinions I might write on the subject ... oops ...

To be more specific, that is not the sum total of my definition of filk.

However, when considered in terms of my agreement that filk is about the community, not necessarily about the material, it provides a succinct, albeit flawed, summary.

I return the floor to my friend the honorable member from Illinois.

[jerusha.livejournal.com]

As I recall from my lurking days on rec.music.filk, this question can be approached from either a musicological viewpoint or a sociological one. Unfortunately, it seems that that division is not just opposite ends of the same stick, but really two separate sticks.

I tend to go for a two-step definition. If one defines "folk music" as the indigenous[1] music of a time, a place, or a population, such that one may then discuss "celtic folk music" or "folk music of the African Diaspora" or "folk music of the American Labor Movement", then filk is the folk music of the community of science fiction and fantasy fandom. This is primarily getting hold of the sociological end of the definition stick, but it's how I parse it in my head.

Using this definition, non-"topical" works by filkers are filk, because they're by Our People. Topical works by non-filkers may be adopted but don't have to be called filk (I'm thinking of the Weird Al boundary here - I've heard it rumored that he is aware of filk and would prefer that his works not be considered as such, even if they would otherwise be filk based on topic)

[1]: I'm not sure I like "indigenous" or "native" here, but they're as close as I can think of to the sense I'm trying to convey.