Krauthammer on Christmas

[billroper]

This column by Charles Krauthammer appeared in the Chicago Tribune yesterday. (But the source I've linked to doesn't require registration. So there.) I handed the paper over to daisy_knotwise to read, because we've been discussing the subject of the "de-Christmasing" of Christmas for a while and I thought she'd enjoy the article.

This is, of course, nothing new. I recall old gags about "getting the X out of Xmas". But it does seem to be an accelerating trend and I'd like to think there's some happy middle ground here.

Of course, it's the guys standing in the middle who get shot at by both sides.

Comments

[shsilver.livejournal.com]

I like the ad for the "documentary" at the bottom which says you'll see Ann Coulter at her best.

[billroper]

You know, I didn't even notice that. Of course, I usually have my mental ad filter turned on when I'm looking at web sites.

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

Seeing Ann Coulter at her best would require her on another planet, n'est-ce pas?

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Yeah, well, this is frankly part of a well-calculated campaign by the right to play up that "Christmas is in danger". Eeyup, that four-month build-up to the biggest shopping period of the year, that national holiday, all that.

Government buildings have been avoiding decorations; makes sense -- they're supposed to be doing so, that little First Amendment thing about not endorsing a religion. (Honestly, if they had equal quantities of decorations for Christmas, Hannukah, Kwanzaa, and Saturnalia, I'd be good with that. I really would.) A lot of school districts have been cutting back on calling holiday celebrations "Christmas celebrations", without question. Because they are sometimes hit with lawsuits from people who do not worship as the majority does. And why? Because there is pressure to make them worship as the majority does.

Just today, there's a story (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-cheerleader21dec21.story) about a judge overturning an appeal by a Georgia cheerleading coach to get her job back. She required the cheerleading team to attend Bible studies. A Jewish woman on the team had a problem with that. If you can tell me what Bible study has to do with college football cheerleading, I'll buy the beer.

Bill, I don't think you or I know more than a handful of people who might even theoretically have a problem with Christmas, apart from the normal "holiday depression/how am I gonna pay for all this/no time no time no time" stuff. Even the pagans we know celebrate Christmas, as a facet of the seasonal holiday. But ever since Bill O'Reilly started this nonsensical "I'm the only guy defending Christmas" thing, suddenly the holiday that drives 20% of our economy is in danger.

Ri-i-i-i-ight.

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

Hey, I get Christmas off every year. Of course, I have to use vacation or personal days if I want any of MY holidays off...

[billroper]

The Georgia cheerleading coach had no right to require someone on the team to attend Bible study classes. Some of the other complaints are a little harder to opine on from the content of the article (as in, I'd like to know more of the details before rendering an opinion either way), but she was clearly over the line with the Bible study classes.

As far as the decorations go, I'm in favor of providing public space for religious displays, but I don't think that public dollars should pay for them. Fair enough?

[shsilver.livejournal.com]

And it isn't an X, it is a Chi, as in Chi-Rho, the Greek abbreviation for Christ.

[billroper]

An X is about as close to a Chi as I'm going to get out of this keyboard.

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

I thought Chi-Rho was the capital of Egypt?

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

My limited knowledge of history suggests that Jews don't complain about Christian religious displays, not because of their confidence in their rich religious heritage, but because they've got about a thousand years of pogroms behind them, whispering in their ears "don't mess with the Christians; they'll kill you." Easter was more dangerous than Christmas, granted, but still.

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

This seems like the obvious answer to me.

B

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

Speaking as a Jew, I have always been uncomfortable with the pervasiveness of Christmas. I don't like the religious aspects, and I don't like how our entire society gets co-opted by the retail establishment. I don't like the forced cheer, and I don't like watching my friends go crazy under the weight of the season's emotional baggage.

I'd rather strangers not assume that I am Christian. I'd rather not see overtly religious decorations on public buildings. And I think Krauthammer's comment about Orthodox Jews demonstrates that he doesn't actually know any Orthodox Jews. But his writing is a good demonstration of why Christianity is such a dominating world religion.

In general, I don't care much for reigious fundamentalists. The ones in the White House terrify me, as do the ones who are terrorists. (Although the ones in the White House can do more damage.)

I've come to terms with Christmas over the years. It's a nice holiday, and I enjoy Christmas Day spent with friends and the children of friends. But I could do without the "season."

B

[(Anonymous)]

I'm Jewish too, and tend to get a bit tired of the pervasiveness of the Christmas trappings. I do, however, like the lights, and used to sing with the Chicago Symphony every year for the Christmas program.

I found Krauthammer's dismissal of Chanukah commemorating a battle to be short-minded. From my understanding, many sects of Jews do believe Chanukah to commemorate protection of the Temple to be the reason for the holiday, and I know I've heard at least one religious/observant Jew tell me that the miracle part was largely inflated throughout history. I could be incredibly off the mark, though.

JT

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

A different take from Krauthammer's (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15129-2004Dec20.html).

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

I was particularly moved by 'But one thing is even more foolish: for the religious majority to feel "oppressed" by a public etiquette designed to honor the rights of those outside its ranks.'

K. [thanks for the pointer]

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

Good essay; thanks.

B

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

And, just to make things interesting...

Tear Down The Cross (http://gadflyer.com/articles/?ArticleID=258).

It is not what you think it is.

[drzarron.livejournal.com]

Actually, I might be in the minority here, but I thought the gent made some very good points in the article.

As a kid, I never thought of Christmas as a christian holiday. It was a social event, something everyone participated in in general, just everyone had different specifics as to their personal activities.

We went to church, some friends went to temple, some did nothing other than have family over. It always simply felt as an event that the world came to gether to celebrate.

Sure, Christmas is religious, and non religious and for families and for shopping. We're THE consumer society, lets consume people. But it is as I've always thought it was and hoped it was, a unifying time. A time that, perhaps, just for a moment, people will stop and think about someone else. And you don't have to be of any paricular background to participate in that!

And as he said in the article, how weak is your faith or lack there in that seeing or hearing references to another belief would piss you off? Don't like it? Ignore it.

It wouldn't hurt for you to find some part of the season to embrace. "The Christmas Spirit" should be a real thing, something we all decide to embrace. Dickens' "A Christmas Carol", certain one of THE touchpoints of, at least, American Christmas, embraces the ideal of the christmas spirit, with out a tick of relgious overtones.

Live your own life, let others live theirs. And cut Christmas a break.

[shsilver.livejournal.com]

And as a Jew, I always have viewed Christmas as a religious holiday and yes, I do get offended when one of my Christian friends tries to tell me it isn't religious and I should celebrate it. That has always struck me as a backdoor method of trying to convert me, in practice, if not in faith. Given that it wasn't too long ago that my grandparents and several other relatives were killed because of that faith, I don't take too kindly to people trying to change it.

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

Like shsilver, I have always seen Christmas as a religious (and Christian) holiday.

I think that people should, in fact, be free to celebrate it in the manner they so choose. I do object to the assumption that I have any interest in celebrating it.

(Although if someone wishes me happy holidays, my answer this year has mainly been, "It was very nice, thanks. And same to you if you've got one coming up.")

[sdorn.livejournal.com]

Probably a bit late to be seen by most readers of this post (except Bill), but I have my own take, explained at a bit more length.

[poltr1]

Hell, I grew up in a multicultural school district before the term was even coined. We celebrated both Hanukkah and Christmas. One of my best friends back home in Buffalo is a Sikh. When his dad, a professor at Buffalo State College, went before the school board asking for a more inclusive "holiday concert", it was met with a ;ot of local support. And what else did he get for his troubles? A lambasting by Pat Robertson on his 666 Club show. (34 are really cardboard cutouts, y'know? :) ) Robertson said these people were liberals out to undermine American society. What Robertson didn't know was that the Singhs are Republican, if not moderate supporters. I've seen a picture of him with former congressman Jack Kemp.

I see Christmas as two holidays in one -- the religious holiday celebrating the birth of Christ (which didn't happen on December 25th; it's only on that date because some Pope decreed it so), and the secular holiday (which I call "Xmas") celebrating the retail season and the materialness of it all.

from the mouths of babes...

[daddy-guido.livejournal.com]

Standing in the midst of an obscenely commercial Xmas Display at (of all places) our local ACE harware store, my daughter, who has grown up in a semi-agnostic household, (we don't go to church, but her grandparents do, on both sides, to different churches, and so she's familiar with the concept)says to me...
"look Daddy - it's Baby Jesus!"
After my initial panic attack that the second coming might be starting, and that my child would be scarred for eternity by watching me go toe-to-toe with Gabriel as he tried to cast me into a lake of fire, I realized that she was actually referring to a modest nativity scene placed on a shelf at (a 3-year-olds) eye level.
I breathed a sigh of relief, and said "yes, honey, that's who that is" thinking she was just verifying the identity of the figurine. Since we don't have a heavy church presence in our home, I was mildly curious as to her ability to recognize said religious figure, but i chalked it up to a friend's house, or school.
But no.
"Daddy, is that Jesus' Mommy?" (Mary Figure)
"yes honey, isn't she pretty?"
"which one of those men is his Daddy?"
(WARNING, DANGER WIL ROBINSON)
"Um, well, three of the men are kings, coming to give him a birthday present, and the other man is Joseph"
"is joseph his daddy?"
(I CAN"T GET LOCK, TALK TO ME, GOOSE!)
"uh, well, sort of"
"why sort of?"
(EJECT! EJECT!)
So, in the middle of an ACE hardware, standing in the checkout line, i was called on to explain the concept of Immaculate Conception to a 3.5 year old.

But ponder this - somehow, through all the glitz, and all the lights, and all the crap in that store, my very young daughter somehow zeroed in on the very plain figure inthe manger as significant to the holiday at hand, even though she does not get "fed' religion at home.

Guess you can't take the "Christ" out of Christmas after all.

Re: from the mouths of babes...

[billroper]

You have an incredibly perceptive child. :)

(No, seriously, you do. But it does make for interesting explantions, doesn't it?)

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

More commentary on the topic:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/laurel/549709.html

Wow, it really is a thing this year. (But, with the resurgance of Christian fundamentalism in the U.S., I suppose I should have expected it.)

B

[madfilkentist]

Well, with everyone else weighing in, I might as well post a link to my own comments.

I don't object to official government Christmas exhibits because my identity as an atheist is fragile, but because the government shouldn't be taking my money to promote ideas which I don't believe in. (And if anyone's about to say "But then you'd have to object to the government's taking your money to promote ...", my answer is, "Yes, that too.")