A Thought About Slytherin

[billroper]

daisy_knotwise and I have been kicking Deathly Hallows about now that she's finished it. In a completely spoiler-free fashion, I've arrived at an observation about Slytherin House, catalyzed by some additional discussion over in allisona's journal:

Gryffindor and Slytherin are both intended to produce leaders. It's just that they produce different kinds of leaders, both useful in the right circumstance. The leaders from Gryffindor are the boss that you love to work for, while the leaders from Slytherin are the boss that you hate to work for.

Sometimes you need Winston Churchill, but other times you need George Patton to get the job done.

Comments

[phuphuphnik.livejournal.com]

No, that is actually pretty spoiler heavy for some of us. No worries, though.

I pictured Slytherin

[capplor.livejournal.com]

as the outfit the produces politicians in the old "Ward boss/Tamany Hall" kind of style. I bet Fudge was a Slytherin. What's-his-name. Snapes's replacement as potion master, was probably very typical. Not 'evil' per se, but very much into wheeling, dealing, currying favor and generally promoting their own group's self interest.

That these folk are also interested in the purity of blood is almost a natural follower. That is, after all, the classic "Old Boy Network", or the magical world's equivalent, thereof.

[madfilkentist]

From the hints of history that the series gives, the house system of Hogwarts was a compromise necessary to make the school get off the ground at all. Salazar Slytherin saw himself as an aristocrat, among wizards and especially above Muggles; probably he had most of the Galleons that went into its founding. In the early days, Hogwarts might have been four schools under one roof for all practical purposes. Over time the teaching became more unified and the differences among Gyffindor, Hufflepuff, and Ravenclaw less important, but Slytherin House kept its tradition of aristocracy and increasingly was at odds with the others.

[smallship1.livejournal.com]

Yes, i see what you mean. One kind will do anything to get the job done, the other will do anything to stay in the job. Not sure in what circumstances that second kind is useful, but i'll take your word for it...

[jrittenhouse.livejournal.com]

I'd have to have the Sorting Hat check me out as to whether I'd have been in Ravenclaw or Gryffindor.

[billroper]

That's certainly one kind of division, but I was thinking more of how there are some bosses that you'll walk through the fire for because you love them and some who you'll walk through the fire for because you fear them.

[dek9.livejournal.com]

But, but... Gretchen said *I* am Slytherin. And my guys love working for me.

Explain THAT one (without spoilers - I'm only on page 120)

[billroper]

Not necessarily being 100% convinced that you're Slytherin, but let's assume you are for a moment. It's easy to explain.

Slytherin leaders tend to be "strong men" (or women, in your case). They make sure that things are run their way. When a Slytherin-type leader is transplanted into a situation where things have been running completely out of control and successfully takes control, then the people around him will adore him for having saved them from chaos.

How's that?

[dek9.livejournal.com]

I'm not convinced I am either, but that's what Gretchen and Bonnie said after the movie.

And you are dead on about the "Completely out of control" and the taking control. I don't know that I'm steering the boat in a better direction, but it's definately a DIFFERENT direction. Only time will tell about the rest.

[demoneyes.livejournal.com]

Gryffindor emphasises bravery; Slytherin emphasises ambition. But only in the white and black world of a 10 year old (her initial audience of course) are these qualities necessarily mutually exclusive. Just to take your example, I don't think many would say Churchill was short of ambition or Patton short of courage! Nor looking at later comments is likeability necessarily anything to do with either - just look at Percy, a Gryffindor cold fish or Slug, a Slytherin who works hard to try to be liked.

Two more obvious examples: Ron's greatest desires were to be Prefect, Head Boy and Quidditch captain - ambition after ambition in a Gryffindor. Draco took huge risks to try to save his family - persistent bravery in a Slytherin. Courage and ambition are not exclusive qualities and to be fair to her, JKR doesn't seem to be trying to write them that way.

End of the day, I think the most you can say is that those with more bravery or ambition may tend to find themselves in leadership positions more often. But I think there's just too much overlap to generalise further.

(One final historical example whilst talking of leaders; possibly Britain's finest ever General, the Duke of Wellington. Bravery, definite check. Ambition, oh yes. Smart, definitely. Infinite care in infinite details, pretty much his watchword. 4/4, good job they never had to sort him... :) )

[smallship1.livejournal.com]

i wouldn't walk through fire for anyone because i feared them. But then, i've never been the military type, so George Patton would have had no use for me anyway, nor i for him. And after Gallipoli, i'm not sure i'd walk through fire for Churchill either.

i think my division is more applicable. Gryffindors are raised to value heroism, courage and getting the right thing done, Slytherins are raised to value parentage, power and staying on top of the heap. For the record, i don't think either house necessarily produces good leaders. i would go for a Hufflepuff to make the laws and a Ravenclaw to administer them. i like a quiet life.

[smallship1.livejournal.com]

Slytherin emphasises ancestry, if you go back to first principles.

[madfilkentist]

It just doesn't fit. The distinctive character of Slytherin is guile and stratagems, sometimes crossing the line into cheating. Such people aren't necessary going to be better at getting an organization out of a bad situation.

The strongest take-charge leader at Hogwarts is McGonagall, a Gryffindor. Snape, in contrast, is well-liked by the people he leads (Slytherin), but is a very poor leader.

[billroper]

Is Snape a poor leader though? Slytherin House has been quite successful, right up until the moment when that Potter twit showed up and Dumbledore started obviously favoring him. :) The main hall was wearing Slytherin's colors during Potter's first year.

And Voldemort was an obviously successful leader using a combination of fear and doling out favors to his followers, working with brute force, not so much guile and stratagems -- at least before he was first discorporated.