Get A Job!
Jan. 25th, 2005 11:05 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
billroperToo many people that I know are unemployed. It's certainly true that some of this is due to the annoyingly sucky state of the economy, but I suspect that some of the job-seeking strategies that are in effect may be self-defeating. If you have any reason to suspect this might apply to you, please feel free to read on. The rest of you are welcome to ignore this.
The first thing to remember is that The Job Market Sucks, especially if you're looking for high-tech work. These things are cyclical -- if we're lucky -- and the wheel will likely turn again. But in the interim, you're looking at a job market where there are many applicants for each job. This means that employers can and will be picky in hiring. Resumes get discarded for seemingly trivial reasons. But I'm not here to work over your resume -- I'm here to talk about what to do when you do land an interview.
This leads to the second thing to remember: The Interviewing Process Is Not Fair. If you're lucky, it won't be blatantly discriminatory, but Not Fair is probably the best that you can hope for. Things that didn't cause you to fail an interview in good times will cause you to fail the same interview now.
For example, I am fat. This is going to earn me negative points in an interview situation, fair or not. I can't do a lot (in the short term) about being fat, but I can try to ameliorate the situation by looking professional when I show up for the interview. This means that I need to "wear the uniform". I need a clean, well-pressed suit, shirt, and tie -- even if I'm not likely to be wearing one on a regular basis in my high-tech job. If I have a beard or mustache, they had best be neatly trimmed. My hair should have met a barber in recent weeks and should be at a normal length for a business person. (If you're a woman, you also have a uniform, but it'll be a bit more flexible. I suspect you know what it is. :) )
Why are these things important? Do they have anything to do with your performance on the job? It turns out that they do, at some marginal level. What you are trying to do is to convince your prospective employer that you are not particularly eccentric, because eccentricity is not something that a business is going to see as a plus, in general. Now, you and I both know that -- although you're a bit eccentric -- you're also really good at your job and that your minor eccentricities aren't really a problem. But your potential employer sees "Oh, my God. Another lunatic like that guy that I hired back in 1998 who was such a problem."
Don't give him a reason to think that. Once you are a valued employee with a fine track record, your employer will be willing to give you some license to be a bit -- or maybe more than a bit -- eccentric. But this is a privilege that you have to earn.
At this point, you can start to complain that all this is Not Fair. You're absolutely right. Now, do you want a job, or do you want to complain?
Good. We can move onto the third thing then.
Today You Are A Salesman and the product that you are selling is you. I hate Sales. I never want to work in Sales. The fact that I don't like Sales has something to do with the difficulties I had interviewing when I got my MBA 22 years ago and couldn't find a job. Now, I got really lucky, ended up working for one of my professors at a temporary job which morphed into permanent employment after a month and I'm still there.
Of course, if you were really lucky, you'd have a job right now. So instead of relying on luck, it's time to become a Salesman, despite the fact that it's not your forte. Look at it this way: is there a product in the world that you know the strengths and weaknesses of better than yourself? It is now time to accentuate the positive. You know what your skills are. Let your potential employer know how those skills can benefit him, because that's what he's in the interview trying to find out.
If you don't know how your skills can help the interviewer out (because, for some reason, you've been unable to get sufficient information about the company or job in advance), find out what it is that he needs done and then be prepared to think on your feet. You can have several versions of the story prepared in advance, based on reasonable assumptions about what he might be looking for, even assuming that your advance research is an utter failure. He must have seen something on your resume that interested him, so take a look at what it might have been and be ready to sell it to him.
Today You Are A Salesman. The most important thing to you is to close this deal. (Ok, there are some deals that it's better to walk away from, but if you don't get the job offer, you don't even get the chance to decide to walk away from it. Wouldn't you like to at least look at the offer first?) This means that you have to remove roadblocks that will prevent the deal from closing. Do you have a salary history from the dot.bomb boom -- assuming that you've been forced somehow to hand it over; that's better kept under your hat -- that is out of line with current salary structures? This Is Not A Problem. You understand what the going rate for this job is. (You do understand that, don't you?) Do you have some Immovable Scheduling Obstacle -- say, for instance, that you're pregnant, but not yet visibly so? Maybe you don't want to share that information just now. Or maybe the Immovable Scheduling Obstacle isn't really immovable -- if you really want the job.
You Do Really Want This Job. Even if you decide after you leave the interview that you don't want the job, when you are in the interview, You Do Really Want This Job. There are occasional exceptions to this rule -- such as, when it is obvious that this is a complete mismatch -- but usually, you're in the interview because it's not a complete mismatch. So not only can you do this job better than anyone else, but you want to do it.
(This, by the way, was one of my major problems when interviewing. I believe that there are probably a number of things that I could do and enjoy doing. That's not what an interviewer wants to hear. He wants you to be motivated to want his job, because there's somebody out there who -- even if he isn't really motivated by this particular job -- is at least capable of lying to him competently. And, you know, after you've been out of work for a while, maybe You Really Do Want This Job.)
These things may not get you every job, but they'll get some of the roadblocks out of your way. And if you knock down the roadblocks, you've got a better chance of getting through the interview process and showing them what you can actually do.
The first thing to remember is that The Job Market Sucks, especially if you're looking for high-tech work. These things are cyclical -- if we're lucky -- and the wheel will likely turn again. But in the interim, you're looking at a job market where there are many applicants for each job. This means that employers can and will be picky in hiring. Resumes get discarded for seemingly trivial reasons. But I'm not here to work over your resume -- I'm here to talk about what to do when you do land an interview.
This leads to the second thing to remember: The Interviewing Process Is Not Fair. If you're lucky, it won't be blatantly discriminatory, but Not Fair is probably the best that you can hope for. Things that didn't cause you to fail an interview in good times will cause you to fail the same interview now.
For example, I am fat. This is going to earn me negative points in an interview situation, fair or not. I can't do a lot (in the short term) about being fat, but I can try to ameliorate the situation by looking professional when I show up for the interview. This means that I need to "wear the uniform". I need a clean, well-pressed suit, shirt, and tie -- even if I'm not likely to be wearing one on a regular basis in my high-tech job. If I have a beard or mustache, they had best be neatly trimmed. My hair should have met a barber in recent weeks and should be at a normal length for a business person. (If you're a woman, you also have a uniform, but it'll be a bit more flexible. I suspect you know what it is. :) )
Why are these things important? Do they have anything to do with your performance on the job? It turns out that they do, at some marginal level. What you are trying to do is to convince your prospective employer that you are not particularly eccentric, because eccentricity is not something that a business is going to see as a plus, in general. Now, you and I both know that -- although you're a bit eccentric -- you're also really good at your job and that your minor eccentricities aren't really a problem. But your potential employer sees "Oh, my God. Another lunatic like that guy that I hired back in 1998 who was such a problem."
Don't give him a reason to think that. Once you are a valued employee with a fine track record, your employer will be willing to give you some license to be a bit -- or maybe more than a bit -- eccentric. But this is a privilege that you have to earn.
At this point, you can start to complain that all this is Not Fair. You're absolutely right. Now, do you want a job, or do you want to complain?
Good. We can move onto the third thing then.
Today You Are A Salesman and the product that you are selling is you. I hate Sales. I never want to work in Sales. The fact that I don't like Sales has something to do with the difficulties I had interviewing when I got my MBA 22 years ago and couldn't find a job. Now, I got really lucky, ended up working for one of my professors at a temporary job which morphed into permanent employment after a month and I'm still there.
Of course, if you were really lucky, you'd have a job right now. So instead of relying on luck, it's time to become a Salesman, despite the fact that it's not your forte. Look at it this way: is there a product in the world that you know the strengths and weaknesses of better than yourself? It is now time to accentuate the positive. You know what your skills are. Let your potential employer know how those skills can benefit him, because that's what he's in the interview trying to find out.
If you don't know how your skills can help the interviewer out (because, for some reason, you've been unable to get sufficient information about the company or job in advance), find out what it is that he needs done and then be prepared to think on your feet. You can have several versions of the story prepared in advance, based on reasonable assumptions about what he might be looking for, even assuming that your advance research is an utter failure. He must have seen something on your resume that interested him, so take a look at what it might have been and be ready to sell it to him.
Today You Are A Salesman. The most important thing to you is to close this deal. (Ok, there are some deals that it's better to walk away from, but if you don't get the job offer, you don't even get the chance to decide to walk away from it. Wouldn't you like to at least look at the offer first?) This means that you have to remove roadblocks that will prevent the deal from closing. Do you have a salary history from the dot.bomb boom -- assuming that you've been forced somehow to hand it over; that's better kept under your hat -- that is out of line with current salary structures? This Is Not A Problem. You understand what the going rate for this job is. (You do understand that, don't you?) Do you have some Immovable Scheduling Obstacle -- say, for instance, that you're pregnant, but not yet visibly so? Maybe you don't want to share that information just now. Or maybe the Immovable Scheduling Obstacle isn't really immovable -- if you really want the job.
You Do Really Want This Job. Even if you decide after you leave the interview that you don't want the job, when you are in the interview, You Do Really Want This Job. There are occasional exceptions to this rule -- such as, when it is obvious that this is a complete mismatch -- but usually, you're in the interview because it's not a complete mismatch. So not only can you do this job better than anyone else, but you want to do it.
(This, by the way, was one of my major problems when interviewing. I believe that there are probably a number of things that I could do and enjoy doing. That's not what an interviewer wants to hear. He wants you to be motivated to want his job, because there's somebody out there who -- even if he isn't really motivated by this particular job -- is at least capable of lying to him competently. And, you know, after you've been out of work for a while, maybe You Really Do Want This Job.)
These things may not get you every job, but they'll get some of the roadblocks out of your way. And if you knock down the roadblocks, you've got a better chance of getting through the interview process and showing them what you can actually do.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
For those that don't make a great visual impression
Date: 2005-01-26 05:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-26 06:04 am (UTC)1. Remember that they aren't the enemy. Yes, there are lots of things that interviewers/hiring people use to eliminate candidates. They have to - they probably got a zillion applications; you have to make decisions based on something. But you know what? They probably want the job filled *at least* as much as you actually want the job - they don't *want* to keep looking at applications and interviewing. They want someone. Yes, they want someone who they think will be good. But they do really want someone; you aren't the only one expending a lot of energy on this search.
Remembering that they want someone can be helpful when interviewing - they aren't *just* looking for bad things about you or reasons to get rid of you; they're also hoping (and looking) for ways you might be a great match and really fit with the company.
2. (If you're a woman, you also have a uniform, but it'll be a bit more flexible. I suspect you know what it is. :) )
Actually, we have an issue that you don't even have to worry about. Stupid as it sounds in this day and age, the skirt/trouser issue is actually pretty big some places. There are places where corporate culture really dictates that women should wear skirts; interviewing in a pants-suit might hurt you. (Yes, you can raise questions about whether this is sensible or if you want to work there, but it's true.)
Also, the problem with flexibility is that there are so many ways it can go wrong if you don't know the culture. Can you wear a dress? How about a dress and a jacket? Standard suit? What about a scarf? What about jewellry? What kind of makeup is appropriate? High heels or flats?
There are way too many stupid choices like this. We have more flexibility but sometimes flexibility *sucks*. I deeply envy my male counterparts interviewing at the APA; I had to get advice from one of our female profs about what to wear for interviews because there's so much variation in female garb.
(And I really wish there were an easy female equivalent to the guy in trousers and a sportsjacket look; it's great for lectures and colloquia but it's hard to imitate for my gender. *sigh*)
Okay, that's probably more than you ever wanted to know about female interviewing clothes woes. In any case, I thought your advice on everything else was good!
no subject
Date: 2005-01-26 12:57 pm (UTC)Many of the jobs out there I'm simply not qualified for. I have one month of Java, and 6 months of Visual C++. That's what people are looking for, not someone who has 5+ years of Perl CGI scripting and web application development. And as I've said to numerous people, training does not equate experience.
And for the ones I think I am qualified for, I usually don't get beyond the resume submission stage. Unfortunately, companies no longer have the time or money to respond to everyone who applies, even if it's an "I'm sorry, you're not what we're looking for" letter.
Career coaches also help, if one's ready, willing, and able to shell out the bucks for one. Many job seekers -- myself included -- don't think like human resources people, and that could be a roadblock.
no subject
Date: 2005-01-26 01:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-26 03:12 pm (UTC)Its a great idea to prepare a few. Be sure you keep track of them in your head, just incase they are answered within the interview.. you'd look pretty silly if you asked a question about something they went over in detail.
Another thing abour appearence, POSTURE. Remember your mother (or Nuns or third grade teacher) Sit Up Straight. If you can handle it, sit forward slightly, back off the chair, it give the impression of attentiveness. Don't Slump, shoulders square. Be aware of your body position.
When they ask a question, especially a long one, lean in towards the speaker.
Do not sit there placidly. Nod, smiles, cock your head, look thoughtful. No one wants to hire a lump.
Don't over inflate yourself. The guy interviewing you knows all the job experience double speak. Be straigh forward about your experiences.
Push your talents more than just your old positions.
NEVER talk down an old employer! Even if your last job blew chunks and the boss was the anti-christ, be politic when discussing it.
And remember, Smiles, Eye contract, firm handshake. Listen when its time to listen, talk when its time to talk (this sounds simple, but few know how to do it properly).
And you got to kiss a lot of toads before you find a price. Keep At It.
Panelist Request
Date: 2005-01-26 03:54 pm (UTC)Would you like to sit on a panel or two at ConClave next fall? Maybe one on "Interviewing skills for Techies" or something like that?
*evil evil grin*
no subject
Date: 2005-01-26 03:58 pm (UTC)So, Dave (or is it David?, you tell me), if you are planning on attending ConClave next fall . ..
Could you sit on a panel (maybe with Bill . .) or two? Maurita and I are developing a track for Unemployed Techies for ConClave (yes, it's Steve Mcd's fault). I'll make sure the panels don't conflict with the DI meeting . . .
no subject
Date: 2005-01-26 05:53 pm (UTC)Your appearance should be neutral so as to not bias the interview experience. The only bias you should lend to the experience is "professional".
I'm not one to give specific clothing advice - I don't own a suit that properly fits any more.
I'm also not one to pay much attention to clothing or appearance beyond "this person smells" or looks completely dishevelled. Image, and to some extent kinesiology, often make no positive impression on me and when overdone will make a negative one.
However, I'm a bit of an oddball for these sorts of things.
Re: Panelist Request
Date: 2005-01-26 08:31 pm (UTC)Similar problems here...
Date: 2005-01-27 01:57 am (UTC)Or that's what it's seemed like recently.
I'm completely flummoxed on why the employers seem to be boycotting me. I'm not paranoid, but sometimes it does feel as if I'm black-listed.
no subject
Date: 2005-01-27 03:47 am (UTC)some additional points
Date: 2005-01-27 05:23 am (UTC)2. utilize resources - if you went to college, your school likely has a placement office - i went to Western IL univ, and they have a placement office, a group health plan, and a job board, all for alumni out of work.
Library, chamber of commerce, church organizations, fraternal organizations (see #1), talk to your mayor, your councilman, senator, etc.
You'd be amazed at the organizations that can help you find a gig.
3. Volunteer - if you're not doing anything to earn cash, pitch in at any major charity, and build your resume while you make more contacts.
4. Expand your horizons - maybe it's time for a career change - most people change career orientations 7 times or more in their lifetime - maybe this is one of those times for you. Since you're at the bottom rung, starting fresh is better than not starting.
5. Be assertive and confident - in cover letters, phone calls, interviews, always assume that you are going to get the job, and that the process is just a formality. YOU know how good you are, and if it shows that you know, then other folks follow your lead. This may sound a bit like arrogance, but it DOES work. I have gone on many job interviews in my life, and have ALWAYS been offerred a position I interviewed for - in almost every case, "confidence" was listed as one of the traits that got me the gig, even for jobs I was woefully lacking skills for. If you're smart, (and most people reading Bill's LJ probably are) you can learn how to do almost anything, and since 60% of the workforce in this country is comprised of morons, you'll likely do it better than the person before you. Always remember that throughout the process.
Yes
Date: 2005-01-27 09:49 pm (UTC)Re: Similar problems here...
Date: 2005-01-28 04:19 am (UTC)Re: Yes
Date: 2005-01-28 04:21 am (UTC)I'll keep my fingers crossed that you won't have to use this strategy any time soon.