So I Have a Friend

[billroper]

Or maybe I had a friend. Some days, it can be hard to tell.

A few months ago, he wondered cryptically in a post on my friends list about why it is that people with different political opinions than his who he enjoys discussing things with eventually get tired of talking to him on the subject and wander off in varying degrees of either silence or huffiness. I'm guessing, given the timing, that I was the particular person referenced in that post. (Cue Carly Simon and "You're So Vain".)

And today, I got a little condescension bomb from him on a dead thread. And it reminded me of why I walk away from these conversations with some people.

Because, as daisy_knotwise frequently reminds me, "What's the point?"

I have lots of opinions myself. I like to believe that they're founded in data. I even see that I've occasionally been known to change my opinion given fresh data to look at. (No, I don't feel like getting into examples right now. Take my word for it for once, ok?)

But, you know, I am just sick to death of condescension. Condescension was what got me to walk away from a particular mailing list that I was on, prompting the comment that I reference earlier in this post.

I do my best to argue honestly. I will put out a proposition or argue with someone else's proposition, but I generally try to start from a basis of fact. I assume -- until reasonably proven otherwise -- that the other person is also interested in facts. I have been known to make suggestions to liberal partisans on how to improve their arguments, because I truly believe that we are all better off if we can discuss these things rationally. I've told conservative partisans to knock off the name calling, because it's counter-productive. (I don't make that argument to my liberal friends, because I'm pretty firmly convinced it would do no good. Maybe I'm wrong.)

And there are days when all this is extremely frustrating.

This is one of those days.

Comments

[jcw-da-dmg.livejournal.com]

I find myself in agreement with most of the sentiments carolf espouses above. There are people on both sides of any disagreement who resort to the emotional rather than the logical. I am hoping that everybody can knock off the name-calling and get down to some productive discourse, but my experience with mankind teaches me that this is not likely to be 100% successful.

[judifilksign.livejournal.com]

As a liberal, I have lurked around some of your (and other conservative friends')posts and con conversations, because I learn things. I have changed some of my leftward leanings more rightward as a result of some of the logical, well-thought out arguments presented.

I, like you, make an attempt to decide things on facts (weighted by my opinions and values, to be certain), and try to be open minded. One of the things that keeps me reading your political posts is that you are not a name caller.

When my liberal friends engage in egregious name calling, I do call them on it. I teach my students to do the same. Placards at rallies can have gimmicks; true dialog should not. One problem is that many flame-on name callers are not in fact interested in jcw_da_dmg's productive discourse, but only in getting their view (the only "right" view) out there.

Props up to you, to help balance that condescension. We might not always agree, but you always give me food for thought, and nudges for rebalancing my world viewpoint. Thank you.

[billroper]

Thanks!

I'm of the opinion that conversations built around facts present (as I'm wont to put it) the ever-present danger of actually learning something new. And I don't believe that either liberals or conservatives have a monopoly on governmental idiocy.

It seems to be an equal-opportunity affliction. :)